Well this is what happened….
…apart from the UK and Holland not showing any signs of rushing into negotiating…
….nothing.
Related posts:
So What Happened After The Big Message Was Sent To The World With The IceSave “No” Vote?
20 Comments → “So What Happened After The Big Message Was Sent To The World With The IceSave “No” Vote?”
Leave a Reply
© 2012 Economic Disaster Area.
IsoTherm by 
Vilhjalm A.
1 year ago
The national referendum has been pushed out of the news by Greece. The EU doesn’t have to worry too much about debt-renegers like Iceland because the Germans have taken a very hard line against Greece. Germany won’t give Greece 45 billion Euros themselves, or through the EU Central Bank. Greece must go to the IMF. So the equilibrium has been restored – you either borrow at ridiculous interest rates, or you satisfy the IMF, the international debt policemen, or you go broke, or you stay out of the international community.
Lino
1 year ago
Vilhjalm A.
why 45 billion?
In the end, against common sense, poor Angela risks seriously to have to disburse something, perhaps with the figleaf of IMF intervention and generic and vague promise “to do something in the future to avoid the same” to save face internally, given the capital leverage ratio multiplier of EU or Gemany of the IMF trasury.
It would be very sad and immoral to have to “save” Greece (for this year only, next year inevitably they will play again the greek drama), economically it make no sense, JUST politically and just to save political face at astronomical cost, present AND future. And just for one year.
I still hope she will stand for a firm and clear NO, for everybody’s sake, not just the germans’
Not that Germany (nor France) comes out cleanly blackmailing the dishonest and idiot greeks with “buy our weapons or no bailout…”.
John Ervinn
1 year ago
Hi Dadi,
Sorry to contact you via your blog but have emailed you several times about my trip to Iceland. Maybe you haven’t been getting my emails. Could you send me an email? Thanks John.
JP
1 year ago
The funny thing is that Poland offered willingness to help Greece, as did for Iceland (never asked by Iceland to do so).
Well, why Mr Grimsson won´t go to Warsaw and ask for, 5-10 bln Euro ?
Hurry up, because these money could be wasted on Greece
Lino
1 year ago
>The funny thing is that Poland offered willingness to help Greece
really? Could you cite a source for this? I was not aware that Poland did it but who knows? Even Italy offered help but not for Greece’s sake
JP
1 year ago
Lino,
I use Google translator to make it easier, but I am not sure if it works.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896,7699983,Donald_Tusk__Polska_razem_ze_strefa_euro_moze_pomoc.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhhhQK2YbrxImm8gmeyGWAyAQ9K3Gw
Lino
1 year ago
JP,
thanks!
Grandstanding: it’s not out of the scheme he proposes that Greece will be helped today or in the near future, IMHO.
If the translation is reliable and I think it is, he’s talking about a “European mechanism”: he has not offered Poland’s help to Greece, Moldova or Iceland. See the difference? And see why the german (at least Merkel, if only they sang the same tune…) would want none of it but talk about “bilateral”?
Besides, Greece’s problem is not “temporary insolvency”, it’s the greek socioeconomic model and “temporary insolvency” is just the effect: next year again “they will not ask for asssitance” even with “only” 8.7% deficit at best and of couse even more debt than today… but they will “expect” (pretend) other to pay for them nonetheless.
Bailout in greek is not as bailout in german… I would not be surprised at all if the greek took EU+IMF money and then… they defaulted anyway, if not immediately after, some, not many, years later
:):):)
Andrew
1 year ago
According to Reuters today
“Iceland is furious that the Icesave row is delaying aid and with no new talks yet planned to settle the long-standing dispute it hopes it can persuade the IMF and other lenders to let funds flow again even if a deal is not in hand”
So get negotiating!
Dadi
1 year ago
JP, good advice on Poland willing to lend…through the EU…
…it shows that nations are willing to help…through mechanisms they believe to work….
Lino
1 year ago
JP, good advice on Poland willing to lend…through the EU…
…it shows that nations are willing to help…through mechanisms they believe to work….
Dadi Dadi: it shows that nations are willing to help through mechanisms that do not exist (polish PM was referring to a “EMF”?), with somebody else’s money (let me guess… mainly Germany and other net EU contributors) very easy to be “that” generous
:)
And by the way, Poland (and Italy, equally “generous”) could be beneficiaries of such “EMF”… and they never said “Poland and Italy are ready NOW to help, we are ready transfer the money right away”: how could they, they don’t have the money.
Otherwise, be sure your PM and Greece’s would have already tapped such sources.
By the way, Greece has not asked for assistance…
:):):)
And reading the press release from Brussel’s summit, will not have it, at least not as Greece would like it (you wish)…
Dadi
1 year ago
Lino… I obviously misunderstood this on the run…
JP is right, that is a brilliant deal for Iceland…and Poland
JP
1 year ago
That´s why I called it funny that Poland offered willingnes to help Greece.
Poland has already an open credit line from IMF of 20 bln dollars, so in fact that indicates that Poland is a bit in a need itself, although Polish economy is the only one in EU that avoided recession.
But there is one thing that should be taken into consideration.
Poland is always willing to show that is already as rich as others countries in EU. This is especially true when there is a possibility to show that Poland is more generous than Germany or Russia.
Poland offered previous loan to Iceland just after Russia refused to do so, then Poland came with its offer to depress Russians.
So now Mr Grimsson´s trip to Poland is not without a chance to dig some money from generous Polish government if he decided to do so
Politics and economics have a lot to do with emotions and historic rivalry.
Gray, Germany
1 year ago
“Poland offered willingness to help Greece”
As a German citizen, I totally support Poland bailing out Greece. If they think they have enough money to do that, and that th Greeks deserve that, great! I’m a bit surprised, though, since Polish friends say their country has been hit by the recession, too, and isn’t that afluent right now. But the general idea that it shouldn’t always be only the Germans who contribute financially to Europe, and that other nations should take up responsibility, too, sure is laudable! That would be a step in the right direction.
Of course, I don’t believe for a Warszaw minute that tax money from Poland will really flow to Greece. The Greek GDP/capita was about $32000 in 2009, the Polish one less than $18000. I don’t see that Polish voters would be willing to bail out people who actually are richer than themselves…
Gray, Germany
1 year ago
One other point: I don’t know where the number of 45 billion Euros comes from, but this translates to €1184 for every Polish citizen, or €548 for every German. It should be obvious that people aren’t enthusiastic about so much of their money being used for bailing out people who don’t seem to be willing to actively contribute to the wellbeing of their own nation, as is obvious from all the news about civil unrest in Greece.
Lino
1 year ago
>as is obvious from all the news about civil unrest in Greece
you have seen nothing yet: when cooler heads in Greece (are there such things in Greece?) will understand what happened in Brussel, Papandreou governement will be living on borrowed time (even time is borrowed ha ha, I wonder at what interest rates). And the clock is ticking… now the fall of the greek government within the next three months to six months, would’nt it be a nice twist in the plot?
JP
1 year ago
Gray,
45 bln was quoted by Wilhjalm.
Of course Poland never will be able to screw so much money to be… wasted.
And as it comes to Greece, their economy was suffering for quite a long time.
3 years ago I listened to a program in BBC about ‘Generation 600 Euros’ in Greece. Young Greek people even after studying could hardly find a job better paid than 600 Euro per month.
I am wondering how it would be now – ‘Generation 500,400 Euro’ ?
This would be tough even comparing to Polish standards.
As it comes to Poland, economy is somewhat the most peculiar in EU.
38 mln habitants, 17 mln workforce of what 2 mln went abroad and other 2 mln are unemployed. So only 13 mln contribute to support all this mess.
Salaries are highly overtaxed. When we calculate tax plus compulsory pension and health insurance, the salary is taxed nearly 40% – even the lowest wages. Higher incomes are taxed up to 60% calculated that way. But it does not mean that Poles are going to receive a good pension. Current calculation shows that it could be sth between 50-75 % of last salary. It is due to the fact that Poland has one of the lowest percentage of active workforce and lots of young pensioners over just 50, and lot of fake ‘disabled’ people. This will lead to problems in the near future.
So Iceland, despite the disastrous economic situation has the valuable resource of a nation of people that are used to work from the age of 13 til 70.
It is something all EU countries could only dream of.
Gray, Germany
1 year ago
“now the fall of the greek government within the next three months to six months, would’nt it be a nice twist in the plot?”
Back to the same old crooks who created the mess? Greeks must be nuts if they chose this “solution”.
“Young Greek people even after studying could hardly find a job better paid than 600 Euro per month.”
Many young German people even after studying can hardly find a job better paid than 600 Euro per month as an “intern”, too. The average pay for this is between 300 and 500 Euro, according to job exchange monster.de. So, they need a second job to make enough for a living.
Really, where does the weird idea that we Germans are living the high life come from???
And, JP, sry to hear that the situation in Poland is THAT dire. I was under the impression that in comparison with other fromer “Warzaw Pact” nations they fare pretty well. Better than, say, the Hungarians for instance, I thought. Maybe the observation that the Polish people are more “international” than their neighbors, and are especially talented in trade businesses distorted my view.
snowball
1 year ago
at gray
depends really upon the specialization, ~ 5 years ago in tschörmany, economists and mechanical engineers were hired away from the universities for 40-50k salaries -though only paid by the big players- while civil engineers could sell burgers or man the cashier for 5 eur/hr. within 5 years the world changed completely…because right now the economists, mech. engineers and new media folks have to find alternatives.
JP
1 year ago
Jeez Almighty! Mech engineers have to find alternatives ???
So go to Poland, there is scarcity of them and production is booming in every sector from food industry to aerospace.
And it is not very rare that good mech engineers are paid up to 2-3k Euro per month.
BTW, you fly airliners quite often, but do you now that complete landing gear of Boeings and some Airbuses is actually made and finished in Poland ?
I didn´t say that situation in Poland is bad, and I am sure that Poland does economically best of all Eastern Europe. The production industry is booming and so on, but it comes at the expenses of very stressful life of an ‘average’ citizen.
Running own business is also stressful because of extremely high competition on the market and very narrow profit margin, because prices are beaten down, not to mention about highly restrictive tax authorities.
That´s why so many Poles go abroad and live their ‘zero stress’ lives (comapring to Polish stress) – for example in a disaster economy zone – Iceland
JP
1 year ago
Soooo, just nothing bad happened.
Money from IMF flows and UK and Holland shut up for a while.