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	<title>Comments on: Failing Democracy Again: This Time With A National Referendum</title>
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	<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/</link>
	<description>Never Again Iceland!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 08:06:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3175</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3175</guid>
		<description>@boggi

The last time I looked, the Netherlands had a royal family and a parliamentary democracy too.
It&#039;s not the relative merits of the various forms of democracy that is important here; the fact is that Iceland is shifting from a parliamentary democracy to a more representative democracy without precedent for how the system will work, and at a pivotal crisis point in Icelandic history. It gives an extra set of things to worry about for all the negotiators.

I think the example of California is very relevent, the voters don&#039;t really face any immediate consequences of their voting habits, so they vote in extra spending but not new taxes, resulting in the state being virtually bankrupt.

For the record,  I am hoping for a quick and much less painful solution than is on the table at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@boggi</p>
<p>The last time I looked, the Netherlands had a royal family and a parliamentary democracy too.<br />
It&#8217;s not the relative merits of the various forms of democracy that is important here; the fact is that Iceland is shifting from a parliamentary democracy to a more representative democracy without precedent for how the system will work, and at a pivotal crisis point in Icelandic history. It gives an extra set of things to worry about for all the negotiators.</p>
<p>I think the example of California is very relevent, the voters don&#8217;t really face any immediate consequences of their voting habits, so they vote in extra spending but not new taxes, resulting in the state being virtually bankrupt.</p>
<p>For the record,  I am hoping for a quick and much less painful solution than is on the table at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3174</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3174</guid>
		<description>@Bromley86 and Andrew

Yes, there is a way for the parliment to impeach the president as stated in the 11th article of the constitution.  The motion needs 3/4 vote and has to be confirmed in a referendum.  I&#039;ve been advocating for this to be used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bromley86 and Andrew</p>
<p>Yes, there is a way for the parliment to impeach the president as stated in the 11th article of the constitution.  The motion needs 3/4 vote and has to be confirmed in a referendum.  I&#8217;ve been advocating for this to be used.</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3173</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3173</guid>
		<description>Well, sure, people like to have some direct say in issues.  But as has been pointed out, it makes a lot more sense to create a system where you can reasonably expect your representatives to fight your corner for you.

Otherwise you end up with ill-informed and irrational decisions.  I mean, who would honestly believe that sensible people would consistently vote for low taxes and high services, yet that&#039;s apparently what&#039;s happened in California.

Perhaps the mistake is in assuming people are sensible? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, sure, people like to have some direct say in issues.  But as has been pointed out, it makes a lot more sense to create a system where you can reasonably expect your representatives to fight your corner for you.</p>
<p>Otherwise you end up with ill-informed and irrational decisions.  I mean, who would honestly believe that sensible people would consistently vote for low taxes and high services, yet that&#8217;s apparently what&#8217;s happened in California.</p>
<p>Perhaps the mistake is in assuming people are sensible? <img src='http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Boggi</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3172</link>
		<dc:creator>Boggi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3172</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately peple from big countries have lost every sense of democracy, and are very well trained and brainwashed to accept every desition the gobermrnt makes, they are not used to have any saying or power about the matters of their own country. the nation is the people, not parlament is the nation, and the fact that Iceland has a democratic system in which it is still possible to give the people some controll over the counties afairs, has shocked, specially the british, not so much the dutch if you have notice, because the british people have allways been rulled, from the kings and queens to now days the parlament, so I´m so happy that Iceland still has provision for when the goberment is trying to pass a law that goes almos completly against the peoples will, and I´m sure british people would love to have something like this in their own country. And yes people elect a goberment, but that doesnt mean that goberment becoms like a god with full power to decide the nations hole future. I understand that british people are not used to have a saying in their country´s afairs and thats why they are so shocked about what is happening in iceland. Now if some people here in Iceland are useing this situation for their own benfit or if they called this referendum makeing use of this power the pesident has, for the wrong reasons, well thats another thing, because Do you really think this was ÓRG decision? ha,ha, ha. dont make me laugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately peple from big countries have lost every sense of democracy, and are very well trained and brainwashed to accept every desition the gobermrnt makes, they are not used to have any saying or power about the matters of their own country. the nation is the people, not parlament is the nation, and the fact that Iceland has a democratic system in which it is still possible to give the people some controll over the counties afairs, has shocked, specially the british, not so much the dutch if you have notice, because the british people have allways been rulled, from the kings and queens to now days the parlament, so I´m so happy that Iceland still has provision for when the goberment is trying to pass a law that goes almos completly against the peoples will, and I´m sure british people would love to have something like this in their own country. And yes people elect a goberment, but that doesnt mean that goberment becoms like a god with full power to decide the nations hole future. I understand that british people are not used to have a saying in their country´s afairs and thats why they are so shocked about what is happening in iceland. Now if some people here in Iceland are useing this situation for their own benfit or if they called this referendum makeing use of this power the pesident has, for the wrong reasons, well thats another thing, because Do you really think this was ÓRG decision? ha,ha, ha. dont make me laugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3170</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3170</guid>
		<description>&gt;Also most constitutions have checks and balances built into the system to stop one part of government running away with things.  Can you impeach the President, if you think he is not acting In the best interests of the Icelandic people?

Given the fact that the referendum process is not fleshed out in the constitution, there&#039;s a good chance that this isn&#039;t either.

However, that didn&#039;t stop the IP when they needed to bypass the prez.  They must have read wiki :) .  So I&#039;d suggest waiting until the next Nehru award/Green energy thingy and then push it through.

&quot;The nation&#039;s constitution specifies that when the president cannot perform the duties of the office, such as when he or she is abroad or under anesthesia, the prime minister, the president of the Althingi (Parliament), and the president of the Supreme Court collectively assume the power of the office.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Also most constitutions have checks and balances built into the system to stop one part of government running away with things.  Can you impeach the President, if you think he is not acting In the best interests of the Icelandic people?</p>
<p>Given the fact that the referendum process is not fleshed out in the constitution, there&#8217;s a good chance that this isn&#8217;t either.</p>
<p>However, that didn&#8217;t stop the IP when they needed to bypass the prez.  They must have read wiki <img src='http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  .  So I&#8217;d suggest waiting until the next Nehru award/Green energy thingy and then push it through.</p>
<p>&#8220;The nation&#8217;s constitution specifies that when the president cannot perform the duties of the office, such as when he or she is abroad or under anesthesia, the prime minister, the president of the Althingi (Parliament), and the president of the Supreme Court collectively assume the power of the office.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3168</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3168</guid>
		<description>@Icelandbob

So by that logic, if Iceland, as a nation, owes a lot of money, then the people are responsible for paying the debt. Ouch!

I am curious as to the President&#039;s interpretation of the Constitution. What exactly are the powers of the government, if the people are supposed to decide?

 Also most constitutions have checks and balances built into the system to stop one part of government running away with things.

Can you impeach the President, if you think he is not acting In the best interests of the Icelandic people?

For example, the US has the president, senate and supreme court</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Icelandbob</p>
<p>So by that logic, if Iceland, as a nation, owes a lot of money, then the people are responsible for paying the debt. Ouch!</p>
<p>I am curious as to the President&#8217;s interpretation of the Constitution. What exactly are the powers of the government, if the people are supposed to decide?</p>
<p> Also most constitutions have checks and balances built into the system to stop one part of government running away with things.</p>
<p>Can you impeach the President, if you think he is not acting In the best interests of the Icelandic people?</p>
<p>For example, the US has the president, senate and supreme court</p>
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		<title>By: icelandbob</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3167</link>
		<dc:creator>icelandbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3167</guid>
		<description>@Blubber

Well as ÓRG, our &quot;Lord and Saviour&quot; remarked to Jeremy Paxman, the Parliament in Iceland is but a tool and compared to the UK parliament is not soverign. It is the Icelandic People, the nation that is Sovereign. 

so there you go, the people are responsbile for the nation. problem solved!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Blubber</p>
<p>Well as ÓRG, our &#8220;Lord and Saviour&#8221; remarked to Jeremy Paxman, the Parliament in Iceland is but a tool and compared to the UK parliament is not soverign. It is the Icelandic People, the nation that is Sovereign. </p>
<p>so there you go, the people are responsbile for the nation. problem solved!</p>
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		<title>By: Dadi</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3166</link>
		<dc:creator>Dadi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3166</guid>
		<description>Andrew, no there is no limit on the president&#039;s rights to send issues to national referendums. 

So the definition of democracy depends on the mood of the sitting president each time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, no there is no limit on the president&#8217;s rights to send issues to national referendums. </p>
<p>So the definition of democracy depends on the mood of the sitting president each time.</p>
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		<title>By: Blubber</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3165</link>
		<dc:creator>Blubber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3165</guid>
		<description>Andrew: As far as I&#039;ve understood this process is that it is sorely lacking in guidelines and procedure. 
Yes, that is a problem for these negotiations, the UK and NL have no reason to trust that any agreement be followed through on. 

On top of that there seems to be a more widespread misunderstanding of how parliamentary democracy works. Meaning, few people seem to realize that our elected officials are speaking for the country when they make or break promises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew: As far as I&#8217;ve understood this process is that it is sorely lacking in guidelines and procedure.<br />
Yes, that is a problem for these negotiations, the UK and NL have no reason to trust that any agreement be followed through on. </p>
<p>On top of that there seems to be a more widespread misunderstanding of how parliamentary democracy works. Meaning, few people seem to realize that our elected officials are speaking for the country when they make or break promises.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/index.php/features/failing-democracy-again-this-time-with-a-national-referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-3164</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.economicdisasterarea.com/?p=3828#comment-3164</guid>
		<description>The english language summary on Wikipedia &quot;icesave dispute&quot; has a fairly concise summary of the various legal arguments in it. I&#039;m not sure if there is an Icelandic translation.

Also, I&#039;d like to ask if there is an sort of limit on the President&#039;s right to send things to referendum. A quite likely scenario would be a &quot;no&quot; vote in this round, a renegotiation of terms and a new agreement between the governments.  Would that decision be sent to referendum too? It makes the job of both sides of the negotiators difficult. The UK/NL side know that the Icelandic negotiators can be overruled after an agreement has been reached, and the Icelandic government side have to keep looking over their shoulders at the president. You can&#039;t really be a parliamentary democracy and a representative democracy at the same time without establishing some limits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The english language summary on Wikipedia &#8220;icesave dispute&#8221; has a fairly concise summary of the various legal arguments in it. I&#8217;m not sure if there is an Icelandic translation.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d like to ask if there is an sort of limit on the President&#8217;s right to send things to referendum. A quite likely scenario would be a &#8220;no&#8221; vote in this round, a renegotiation of terms and a new agreement between the governments.  Would that decision be sent to referendum too? It makes the job of both sides of the negotiators difficult. The UK/NL side know that the Icelandic negotiators can be overruled after an agreement has been reached, and the Icelandic government side have to keep looking over their shoulders at the president. You can&#8217;t really be a parliamentary democracy and a representative democracy at the same time without establishing some limits.</p>
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